I think that the senator's bill is an almost perfect solution to the immigration problem.
I think granting amnesty to many of the illegal immigrants already here is necessary and almost inevitable from both a pragmatic and a political standpoint. First of all, the logistics of trying to deport the millions of people already here are crazy. It would ultimately take up too much of the nation's resources. It is also better for the United States if the people stay here, because obviously it is impossible to deport all of the citizens (at least immediately) so families get split up, and some people avoid getting caught by doing generally sketchy things like not going to the hospital when theyre sick. It looks bad for the country, but unfortunately makes a great plot for tv shows. So our badness is broadcast all over.
Obama's idea of granting green cards to everyone, however, is his way of avoiding political compromise with the Republicans. For years, the Republicans have called to strengthen the boarder while the democrats wanted amnesty. Truthfully, you need both.
If you have amnesty without a strong border, it will spark a new wave of immigration. With high unemployment already, this new wave of undocumented immigrants that we now have promised freedom to will put unnecessary stress on America's infrastructure and schools, and balloon our deficit further.
I also agree with the contents of the bill and with Tori. This issue really does cross party line. Republicans and Democrats do not have vastly different views on immigration; it is more about the extent of the immigration control. Republicans are typically harder on illegal aliens, whereas Democrats typically provide more options for illegal immigrants. Most politicians understand the need for border and employer enforcement, due to the current economic status of this country. As the economy is taking a turn for the better recently, it cannot be stifled again by an increase in the employment of illegal immigrants. This bill definitely seems to have valid points and support from both sides. It seems to be the best compromise between opposing party views, without denying illegal aliens already in the United States the right to apply for citizenship. In addition, it is vital that illegal immigrants that intend on becoming citizens pay taxes and be subject to fines. These people are benefitting from the United States’ resources, so it is only fair for them to pay the government back for use these resources, if they intend on continuing to use them. The White House’s proposal about gay relationships being a purpose for obtaining a visa could be detrimental to the bill, however. Although I believe it is an issue that should be addressed in the future, it seems that the White House is heavily trying to push the bill farther to the left than many of the senators want. It seems just tacked onto the bill, in order to deter conservatives so they either have to compromise their beliefs on social issues, or block the bill and be blamed for its failure. The issue of gay relationships is definitely valid in today’s society, but is not necessary in this specific bill. The bill’s passage is more important than a facet of the bill that will only affect a small portion of the population.
I also agree with Tori and Gabriella. The fact that the president is trying to make his own legislation when a joint committee came up with one is wrong. The congress not president should be creating the legislation. I do agree that the borders should be secure, but do not know how they would be able to measure the effectiveness of this action. Illegal immigration has always been a long time issue and as Katie said the republicans stance has drastically changed since the election. I believe that those who are illegal have to take steps to become legal like every other immigrant had to and not to just have it be given to them. I also think that if the senate bill passes it could help the republicans in the future because the Latinos and Asian Americans may not see them as an anti-immigrant party.
I agree with all the has been said so far by Tori, Gabriella, and Kirsten. First off, this is a good bill, we need secure borders, and we need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already productively working in this country. The idea of illegal immigrants paying taxes and fines is also a good practical point since many of them have been using the resources of our government free of charge. President Obama's issue with respect to achieving citizenship through a gay relationship is an unrelated issue which has no place in an immigration bill, seeing how contentious this issue has been in the past and we finally have a bipartisan group of senators trying to seriously address this issue. Obama is injecting a divisive political issue into this very constructive bill for crass political purposes. Seeing how partisan Congress has been for the past four years, this is a welcome piece of bipartisan legislation. As mentioned before, the passage of this bill would be good not only for the country but for the Republican party and their standing with minorities.
I most definitely think that illegal immigrants already living in the United States should not be deported - for a lot of reasons. First of all, I think that would just be wrong - there are kids who have grown up in the United States whose parents are illegal, but if they're deported they'd lose the only home they've ever known (and that's not the only scenario I can think of proving it wrong). Secondly, I was kind of confused by Gabriella's statement that "as the economy is taking a turn for the better recently, it cannot be stifled again by an increase in the employment of illegal immigrants" - maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, or her statement is only half true; because if illegal immigrants were deported I'm sure Americans would just complain about the rise in prices due to the lack of cheaper labor in jobs that one doesn't even think about. I'm super biased about the gay marriage issue because I'm completely and utterly FOR gay rights, so saying that I don't have a problem with trying to bring gay rights into the bill would be an understatement. I personally don't think much about the immigration issue, to be honest, but yeah I think it's great that both parties worked to form a bill for strengthening borders, etc. However I'm also pretty sure that if the president thinks he has better ideas, wants to make changes, or just suggest other things instead of just settling, then I think he has every right to. It doesn't mean that his ideas will work out, but it's necessarily "wrong" as Kirsten states.
The United States has 13 million undocumented people in our country – something has to be about this, I believe. Illegal immigrants should not be residing in the United States without the proper papers and Visa/green cards to back them up with. Of course, I agree with Gretchen that some of these illegal immigrants have children. The children should not be faced with charges for living with illegal immigrant parents. Instead, the children should be provided with the appropriate papers in order to live in the United States. I believe that the bipartisan framework of : Border Enforcement, Handing of the flow of Legal Immigrants, Employer Enforcement, and Pathway for citizenship for those who enter the nation illegally is a good step towards limiting the amount of illegal immigrants that are residing in the nation. I also believe that giving the illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship with requirements like paying taxes is just and proper. Illegal immigrants have found many ways to enter the United States, if they cannot be properly restricted, might as well have a pathway for them. Marco Rubio statement of “without such triggers in place, enforcement systems will never be implemented and we will be back in just a few years dealing with millions of new undocumented people in our country”, is 100 percent true. Measures like creating a pathway for citizenship for the illegal immigrants is needed, otherwise the flow of illegal immigrants, will just continue. Though secure borders cannot be guaranteed, legislation can be passed in order for attempts to be made for secure borders. Personally I do not believe that the White House plan of obtaining a VISA to further citizenship is very democratic. I think one needs to identify themselves for a VISA on the basis of their selves not with another partner involved. I do not believe that it is necessary. I do believe that the President statement of illegal immigrants register with the authorities and fulfill their obligations, gaining citizenship is not going to be far. BUT I do believe that green cards and VISA’s are needed for these illegal immigrants. I agree with Tori that the senator’s plan is way more reliable and worthy rather than the White House bill. I also agree with Kristen that the congress not the president should be creating legislation, therefore, the congress should be the one making the decision about illegal immigrants.
I certainly agree that this immigration overhaul is necessary. Providing a path to citizenship for immigrants who have been illegally living within our borders is a much better solution than funding the deportation for many reasons. For one, it prevents families from being split up. Displacement of children whose parents have been deported proves to be extremely difficult. The children are then forced to enter into a system and home in which they are unfamiliar with the people, lifestyle, and possibly language. Secondly, as tax paying citizens, they will be able to lawfully contribute to the existing governmental programs and support our system through taxes. Generally speaking, I agree with those stating that they support the legislation. At the same time, though, I most certainly do not agree with the White House’s decision to inject blatantly partisan provisions to this essential bill. There is no denying that the issue of Gay Rights will be addressed at some point on a federal level very soon. Despite this, the issues of immigration and gay rights are two very different issues, and trying to pass legislation that addresses both of them could easily delay its passage.
I do not think that immigrants should be deported because, as Gretchen stated they have built their lives here and have families and children that need to be thought of. I do think illegal immigrants should try to become legal. Because I don't think they should just be allowed to illegally live in our country. Anyone who lives in America should be subject to the same taxes and others things as everyone else in the country. Because it's not really fair for some people to have to pay for the benefit of living in the country and some people don't.
I agree with everyone who has said that immigrants who are currently living in America should not be deported and I agree with the new legislation to secure our borders but also granting those immigrants amnesty as Tori said is important. I think that those immigrants who have children should be the most eligible for this. I also think that if this piece of legislation is viewed as a bipartisan effort for immigration reform then I think it could really help the Republican party and their current stand with minority groups in American. In order to help the economy continue to grow there needs to be more stricter security at the border so that more jobs can be given to actual citizens than immigrants.
I agree with everyone so far that the bill seem likes a good idea as it makes much more sense to allow the vast amount of illegal immigrants already rooted in the country to stay rather than deporting all of them and destroying their lives. Besides, this would be much too difficult logistically. I also agree that borders should be more secured as well. I think it's really important that this bill gets passed but I don't think it's wrong for President Obama to interject his own ideas and opinions with regard to it, since he is the president after all. However, I do think it's great that there is bipartisan agreement on the bill and it's important that people compromise on it to get it passed.
I couldn't imagine being the person that tells a whole family whose children have grown up, lived lives, made friends, worked, raised families, etc. that they're being deported. I don't know I just wouldn't have the heart to do it. As Margaret said this is a good bill because we need secure borders and we need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already working in this country. Like Gretchen I am for gay rights and I don't have a problem with that being brought into the bill. This is an important issue and I am glad to see that both parties are working together towards a real resolution.
I think that permanently securing the nation's borders is a really unrealistic goal, so having it as a necessity for amnesty is equal to not granting amnesty at all. I do think that granting amnesty and green cards is the best use of our nation's resources, because prosecuting and deporting undocumented immigrants is extremely expensive. Furthermore, having millions more people paying taxes will increase the revenue and help balance the budget. I think that applying for visas for same-sex partnerships is President Obama making good on his inaugural promise to make sure that all people are equal under the law, regardless of sexual orientation, because same sex couples can apply for marriage visas, which is a really important bit of information on the subject that Katie didn't mention. I think that it is great that Obama is keeping good on this promise and I hope to see him keeping some of the other promises he made in his inaugural speech. I hope that it won't polarize conservatives away from the proposals, seeing as this level of compromise is something that we haven't seen in years, but I still think that it was a good move by Obama putting it in.
Essentially, amnesty cannot be granted if or before the borders are secure. I disagree with Stephanie where she says the "securing the nation's borders is a really unrealistic goal." While it might be difficult, it isn't unrealisitc, and it is necessary first step if we are to grant amnesty to the millions of people already living here illegally. If we don't, the United States will seen an unstoppable flow of immigration that we simply cannot afford.
The arguement has also been made that these new immigrants will help balance the budget is really not true. Historically speaking, new immigrants (regardless of race or country of origin) make less money and are more likely to live below the poverty line. Therefore, they are more likely to use government assistance like foodstamps or healthcare. These programs are far costlier than their taxes would bring in. When it's all said and done, the United States will most likely LOSE money on this, but research shows that illegal immigrants are using government services anyways. THERE IS A HUGE ECONOMIC "BUT," however. The US has a disproportionately large number of older people. The illegal immigrants tend to be younger, and have more children. SO, it helps even out the age gap, and WOULD help our economic situation if the newly legal immigrants build economically stable families.
All of the economic evidence supports the bill that the senators have proposed (and if Obama wants to add the same-sex thing whatever, that's an attention-grab and wouldn't hurt the bill). Taking out the border requirement will propagate the problem, and ruin the compromise. If this happens, it is likely that it won't get passed, or would be challenged by southern and south western state governments if it does. It is likely to pass in this form, and should not be changed. Amending the bill to take out the border requirement will require vote-buying pork to pursuade soft republicans, and still might not pass because the Republicans control the house. Pushing the border thing would be unwise on Obama's part.
I think it is really good that this bill is more bipartisan than other bills. It's heartening to see Congress and the parties working together more cooperatively. I think that, as Stephanie said, it is good that Obama is trying to keep the promises he made in his inaugural speech. I also think it's important to secure our borders. But it is also important to make an easier path to become a legal American; especially for those families already living here. It would be good for our economy to have more people paying taxes and living here legally.
After re-reading all the comments, I have to still agree that Illegal immigrants should not be residing in the United States without the proper papers and Visa/green cards to back them up with. Like Stephanie stated, I am glad that Obama is trying to keep the promises he made in his inaugural speech. Though it is hard to keep a lot of the illegal immigrants outside of the United States, it is necessary to do whatever is best to keep them out or at least provide measures like a pathway to citizenship. If all these illegal immigrants are going to get into the United States one way or another, it is a good idea to give them the pathway for being an American citizen, it is like leverage towards them. Securing our orders is way to difficult, people can work around the orders. Things like green cards are a very special tool for the United States, for immigrants to claim. We need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already working in this country also. The people with children should not be held responsible either for their parent's illegal residency.
Gretchen brings up a good point about pulling children out of America and I would love it if we could make everyone happy and just make everyone citizens. But if you want to talk about fairness then we should look at those that came in legally. Is it fair to them that they registered and went through the grueling process of becoming a citizen? Why should those that came into our country illegally, living here without paying taxes, and taking jobs away from those who are legal. Now I believe that if an illegal alien came in and said that they wanted to become a citizen, amnesty could be given to them but they would have to go through the same process as everyone else. I believe that is the most fair. Now as for the children? They should blame their parents for not coming here legally. I know this may seem heartless to some, but their parents had an opportunity to do things the right way.
One of the things that have yet to be addressed here on this forum is the discussion of what the citizen status of people who come to the United States to study should be. Idealistically we should be hoping that after citizens attend one of our highly ranked universities, they will continue to stay here in the United States subsequent to graduation so that they can contribute to the work force. The current status quo, they receive a student visa. However, just because one studies in the United States does not mean that they automatically have access to a green card. There has been some in Congress who have proposed that we grant green cards to any foreign student who graduates from an American university with a STEM degree. (STEM being Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics)Although I would not necessarily agree with this policy, I believe that when members of Congress meet to discuss the provisions of the next immigration policy, the policy of student status should be revisited and possibly amended to encourage these high achieving individuals to stay within the United States.
I definitely agree with Kirsten’s point about how the passage of this bill can help to dispel the anti-immigrant stereotype of the Republican Party. In relation to our analysis, maybe Obama is responding to the cult of the presidency in this situation. He seems to be inferring about what some of the citizens want to hear by injecting a social issue, like gay marriage, into the bill, although it is not completely necessary in this piece of legislation. He is responding to the promises in his inaugural speech, but it is truly his place to do so when Congress is passing this legislation? This may just be another example of the president being expected to handle situations that are not relevant to his job description, but nonetheless become a reality in order to keep high approval ratings. Obama is interestingly acting differently than he did in the article, “Democrat in Chief?” by trying to make the issue more partisan. He is embracing the view of the Democrats, except now it seems that he is unnecessarily polarizing the issue! Kirsten also brings up a good point about the view of many Americans towards immigration: legal immigrants went through the citizenship process the legal way, so why should the government make accommodations for the illegal aliens when they took the easy way out? Although this may seem cynical, it is a reality that many illegal immigrants come to the United States to have children, and their children, if born on American soil, automatically become United States’ citizens. This then gives the illegal aliens leverage to stay in this country. It becomes a sticky situation when the illegal parents get caught, and the question remains if the parents should be immediately deported, leaving their children abandoned in the United States or given a chance to stay united with their children. In order to avoid these complicated types of situations, the securing of the border is necessary for any effective immigrant control legislation.
I think everybody makes very good points. I still feel strongly that this bill is a good idea. I'm glad this is finally a more bipartisan bill. I think there needs to be more bipartisan legislation, with two very polarized parties. Anyway I agree that it is wrong that these people came into America illegally, yet I don't know what their specific circumstances were that caused them to do this. I would have to disagree with Kirsten about the children blaming the parents-the children are US citizens. I don't think we know their circumstances and if the parents are trying to do whatever they can to give the best life for their kids, it would just be wrong to put blame on them. Logistically and economically, I can't imagine that deporting millions of people would be more feasible than granting US citizenship and working to strengthen our border.
I am glad that Congress is finally getting closer towards finding a solution for the unimpeded flow of illegal immigrants into the country and their undocumented existence in this country. For such a long time, the Democrats were seen as those who supported these illegal aliens while Republicans were bent on increasing border protection to keep them out of the country and send them back once they were in. Like many other issues, it has not been resolved because of the increasing partisanship in Congress. So it is a relief to see that both sides are finally coming so close to a solution that will help these illegal immigrants, their families, and the country in general. I was disappointed to hear President Obama's little addition to the proposal that focused on the gay marriage issue. This is completely unrelated and is extremely harmful to the successful passage of the bill. Many Congressman will have a problem with this small addition and will jeopardize the long-awaited solution to this enormous problem. This seemed like Obama was just using his power as President to inject his own personal positions into a major piece of legislation created by Congressmen and emphasizes what we discussed in class about the increasing power that presidents assume and the scope of their power and interference in the nation's politics.
Okay so after reading most of the comments I think that we can pretty much all agree that no, we shouldn't just let everyone come on over and mooch off of the United State's resources or whatever, but we should come up with a way to help those who are already here become, maybe even conveniently, U.S. citizens. I wouldn't kick them out for my life, but we should also come up with solutions to stop any more immigrants from entering. Like everyone else said, I'm glad this bill is more partisan, but I'm still not sure that the whole gay rights thing is such a bad idea. I mean if you want something done, like Obama does here, wouldn't it look a LOT better if you put in a package deal. For example, if you wanted new swimsuits for spring break but you're broke because you don’t have a job, (like me) wouldn't your parents be more willing to get them for you if you told them that you'd take out the trash for the rest of your life to work them off? This is kindof similar -- the republicans are crazy about immigration and want this bill to be passed, so why not stick some gay rights stuff in there for kicks? I don't think the immigration laws are THAT urgent. Maybe I'm simplifying things too much but you're only president twice right? Goodnight guys.
I think that the senator's bill is an almost perfect solution to the immigration problem.
ReplyDeleteI think granting amnesty to many of the illegal immigrants already here is necessary and almost inevitable from both a pragmatic and a political standpoint. First of all, the logistics of trying to deport the millions of people already here are crazy. It would ultimately take up too much of the nation's resources. It is also better for the United States if the people stay here, because obviously it is impossible to deport all of the citizens (at least immediately) so families get split up, and some people avoid getting caught by doing generally sketchy things like not going to the hospital when theyre sick. It looks bad for the country, but unfortunately makes a great plot for tv shows. So our badness is broadcast all over.
Obama's idea of granting green cards to everyone, however, is his way of avoiding political compromise with the Republicans. For years, the Republicans have called to strengthen the boarder while the democrats wanted amnesty. Truthfully, you need both.
If you have amnesty without a strong border, it will spark a new wave of immigration. With high unemployment already, this new wave of undocumented immigrants that we now have promised freedom to will put unnecessary stress on America's infrastructure and schools, and balloon our deficit further.
I also agree with the contents of the bill and with Tori. This issue really does cross party line. Republicans and Democrats do not have vastly different views on immigration; it is more about the extent of the immigration control. Republicans are typically harder on illegal aliens, whereas Democrats typically provide more options for illegal immigrants. Most politicians understand the need for border and employer enforcement, due to the current economic status of this country. As the economy is taking a turn for the better recently, it cannot be stifled again by an increase in the employment of illegal immigrants. This bill definitely seems to have valid points and support from both sides. It seems to be the best compromise between opposing party views, without denying illegal aliens already in the United States the right to apply for citizenship. In addition, it is vital that illegal immigrants that intend on becoming citizens pay taxes and be subject to fines. These people are benefitting from the United States’ resources, so it is only fair for them to pay the government back for use these resources, if they intend on continuing to use them. The White House’s proposal about gay relationships being a purpose for obtaining a visa could be detrimental to the bill, however. Although I believe it is an issue that should be addressed in the future, it seems that the White House is heavily trying to push the bill farther to the left than many of the senators want. It seems just tacked onto the bill, in order to deter conservatives so they either have to compromise their beliefs on social issues, or block the bill and be blamed for its failure. The issue of gay relationships is definitely valid in today’s society, but is not necessary in this specific bill. The bill’s passage is more important than a facet of the bill that will only affect a small portion of the population.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Tori and Gabriella. The fact that the president is trying to make his own legislation when a joint committee came up with one is wrong. The congress not president should be creating the legislation. I do agree that the borders should be secure, but do not know how they would be able to measure the effectiveness of this action. Illegal immigration has always been a long time issue and as Katie said the republicans stance has drastically changed since the election. I believe that those who are illegal have to take steps to become legal like every other immigrant had to and not to just have it be given to them. I also think that if the senate bill passes it could help the republicans in the future because the Latinos and Asian Americans may not see them as an anti-immigrant party.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all the has been said so far by Tori, Gabriella, and Kirsten. First off, this is a good bill, we need secure borders, and we need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already productively working in this country. The idea of illegal immigrants paying taxes and fines is also a good practical point since many of them have been using the resources of our government free of charge. President Obama's issue with respect to achieving citizenship through a gay relationship is an unrelated issue which has no place in an immigration bill, seeing how contentious this issue has been in the past and we finally have a bipartisan group of senators trying to seriously address this issue. Obama is injecting a divisive political issue into this very constructive bill for crass political purposes. Seeing how partisan Congress has been for the past four years, this is a welcome piece of bipartisan legislation. As mentioned before, the passage of this bill would be good not only for the country but for the Republican party and their standing with minorities.
ReplyDeleteI most definitely think that illegal immigrants already living in the United States should not be deported - for a lot of reasons. First of all, I think that would just be wrong - there are kids who have grown up in the United States whose parents are illegal, but if they're deported they'd lose the only home they've ever known (and that's not the only scenario I can think of proving it wrong). Secondly, I was kind of confused by Gabriella's statement that "as the economy is taking a turn for the better recently, it cannot be stifled again by an increase in the employment of illegal immigrants" - maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, or her statement is only half true; because if illegal immigrants were deported I'm sure Americans would just complain about the rise in prices due to the lack of cheaper labor in jobs that one doesn't even think about. I'm super biased about the gay marriage issue because I'm completely and utterly FOR gay rights, so saying that I don't have a problem with trying to bring gay rights into the bill would be an understatement. I personally don't think much about the immigration issue, to be honest, but yeah I think it's great that both parties worked to form a bill for strengthening borders, etc. However I'm also pretty sure that if the president thinks he has better ideas, wants to make changes, or just suggest other things instead of just settling, then I think he has every right to. It doesn't mean that his ideas will work out, but it's necessarily "wrong" as Kirsten states.
ReplyDeleteThe United States has 13 million undocumented people in our country – something has to be about this, I believe. Illegal immigrants should not be residing in the United States without the proper papers and Visa/green cards to back them up with. Of course, I agree with Gretchen that some of these illegal immigrants have children. The children should not be faced with charges for living with illegal immigrant parents. Instead, the children should be provided with the appropriate papers in order to live in the United States. I believe that the bipartisan framework of : Border Enforcement, Handing of the flow of Legal Immigrants, Employer Enforcement, and Pathway for citizenship for those who enter the nation illegally is a good step towards limiting the amount of illegal immigrants that are residing in the nation. I also believe that giving the illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship with requirements like paying taxes is just and proper. Illegal immigrants have found many ways to enter the United States, if they cannot be properly restricted, might as well have a pathway for them. Marco Rubio statement of “without such triggers in place, enforcement systems will never be implemented and we will be back in just a few years dealing with millions of new undocumented people in our country”, is 100 percent true. Measures like creating a pathway for citizenship for the illegal immigrants is needed, otherwise the flow of illegal immigrants, will just continue. Though secure borders cannot be guaranteed, legislation can be passed in order for attempts to be made for secure borders. Personally I do not believe that the White House plan of obtaining a VISA to further citizenship is very democratic. I think one needs to identify themselves for a VISA on the basis of their selves not with another partner involved. I do not believe that it is necessary. I do believe that the President statement of illegal immigrants register with the authorities and fulfill their obligations, gaining citizenship is not going to be far. BUT I do believe that green cards and VISA’s are needed for these illegal immigrants. I agree with Tori that the senator’s plan is way more reliable and worthy rather than the White House bill. I also agree with Kristen that the congress not the president should be creating legislation, therefore, the congress should be the one making the decision about illegal immigrants.
ReplyDeleteI certainly agree that this immigration overhaul is necessary. Providing a path to citizenship for immigrants who have been illegally living within our borders is a much better solution than funding the deportation for many reasons. For one, it prevents families from being split up. Displacement of children whose parents have been deported proves to be extremely difficult. The children are then forced to enter into a system and home in which they are unfamiliar with the people, lifestyle, and possibly language. Secondly, as tax paying citizens, they will be able to lawfully contribute to the existing governmental programs and support our system through taxes. Generally speaking, I agree with those stating that they support the legislation. At the same time, though, I most certainly do not agree with the White House’s decision to inject blatantly partisan provisions to this essential bill. There is no denying that the issue of Gay Rights will be addressed at some point on a federal level very soon. Despite this, the issues of immigration and gay rights are two very different issues, and trying to pass legislation that addresses both of them could easily delay its passage.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that immigrants should be deported because, as Gretchen stated they have built their lives here and have families and children that need to be thought of. I do think illegal immigrants should try to become legal. Because I don't think they should just be allowed to illegally live in our country. Anyone who lives in America should be subject to the same taxes and others things as everyone else in the country. Because it's not really fair for some people to have to pay for the benefit of living in the country and some people don't.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone who has said that immigrants who are currently living in America should not be deported and I agree with the new legislation to secure our borders but also granting those immigrants amnesty as Tori said is important. I think that those immigrants who have children should be the most eligible for this. I also think that if this piece of legislation is viewed as a bipartisan effort for immigration reform then I think it could really help the Republican party and their current stand with minority groups in American. In order to help the economy continue to grow there needs to be more stricter security at the border so that more jobs can be given to actual citizens than immigrants.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone so far that the bill seem likes a good idea as it makes much more sense to allow the vast amount of illegal immigrants already rooted in the country to stay rather than deporting all of them and destroying their lives. Besides, this would be much too difficult logistically. I also agree that borders should be more secured as well. I think it's really important that this bill gets passed but I don't think it's wrong for President Obama to interject his own ideas and opinions with regard to it, since he is the president after all. However, I do think it's great that there is bipartisan agreement on the bill and it's important that people compromise on it to get it passed.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't imagine being the person that tells a whole family whose children have grown up, lived lives, made friends, worked, raised families, etc. that they're being deported. I don't know I just wouldn't have the heart to do it. As Margaret said this is a good bill because we need secure borders and we need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already working in this country. Like Gretchen I am for gay rights and I don't have a problem with that being brought into the bill. This is an important issue and I am glad to see that both parties are working together towards a real resolution.
ReplyDeleteI think that permanently securing the nation's borders is a really unrealistic goal, so having it as a necessity for amnesty is equal to not granting amnesty at all. I do think that granting amnesty and green cards is the best use of our nation's resources, because prosecuting and deporting undocumented immigrants is extremely expensive. Furthermore, having millions more people paying taxes will increase the revenue and help balance the budget. I think that applying for visas for same-sex partnerships is President Obama making good on his inaugural promise to make sure that all people are equal under the law, regardless of sexual orientation, because same sex couples can apply for marriage visas, which is a really important bit of information on the subject that Katie didn't mention. I think that it is great that Obama is keeping good on this promise and I hope to see him keeping some of the other promises he made in his inaugural speech. I hope that it won't polarize conservatives away from the proposals, seeing as this level of compromise is something that we haven't seen in years, but I still think that it was a good move by Obama putting it in.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, amnesty cannot be granted if or before the borders are secure. I disagree with Stephanie where she says the "securing the nation's borders is a really unrealistic goal." While it might be difficult, it isn't unrealisitc, and it is necessary first step if we are to grant amnesty to the millions of people already living here illegally. If we don't, the United States will seen an unstoppable flow of immigration that we simply cannot afford.
ReplyDeleteThe arguement has also been made that these new immigrants will help balance the budget is really not true. Historically speaking, new immigrants (regardless of race or country of origin) make less money and are more likely to live below the poverty line. Therefore, they are more likely to use government assistance like foodstamps or healthcare. These programs are far costlier than their taxes would bring in. When it's all said and done, the United States will most likely LOSE money on this, but research shows that illegal immigrants are using government services anyways. THERE IS A HUGE ECONOMIC "BUT," however. The US has a disproportionately large number of older people. The illegal immigrants tend to be younger, and have more children. SO, it helps even out the age gap, and WOULD help our economic situation if the newly legal immigrants build economically stable families.
All of the economic evidence supports the bill that the senators have proposed (and if Obama wants to add the same-sex thing whatever, that's an attention-grab and wouldn't hurt the bill). Taking out the border requirement will propagate the problem, and ruin the compromise. If this happens, it is likely that it won't get passed, or would be challenged by southern and south western state governments if it does. It is likely to pass in this form, and should not be changed. Amending the bill to take out the border requirement will require vote-buying pork to pursuade soft republicans, and still might not pass because the Republicans control the house. Pushing the border thing would be unwise on Obama's part.
I think it is really good that this bill is more bipartisan than other bills. It's heartening to see Congress and the parties working together more cooperatively. I think that, as Stephanie said, it is good that Obama is trying to keep the promises he made in his inaugural speech. I also think it's important to secure our borders. But it is also important to make an easier path to become a legal American; especially for those families already living here. It would be good for our economy to have more people paying taxes and living here legally.
ReplyDeleteAfter re-reading all the comments, I have to still agree that Illegal immigrants should not be residing in the United States without the proper papers and Visa/green cards to back them up with. Like Stephanie stated, I am glad that Obama is trying to keep the promises he made in his inaugural speech. Though it is hard to keep a lot of the illegal immigrants outside of the United States, it is necessary to do whatever is best to keep them out or at least provide measures like a pathway to citizenship. If all these illegal immigrants are going to get into the United States one way or another, it is a good idea to give them the pathway for being an American citizen, it is like leverage towards them. Securing our orders is way to difficult, people can work around the orders. Things like green cards are a very special tool for the United States, for immigrants to claim. We need a path to citizenship for those illegal immigrants already working in this country also. The people with children should not be held responsible either for their parent's illegal residency.
ReplyDeleteGretchen brings up a good point about pulling children out of America and I would love it if we could make everyone happy and just make everyone citizens. But if you want to talk about fairness then we should look at those that came in legally. Is it fair to them that they registered and went through the grueling process of becoming a citizen? Why should those that came into our country illegally, living here without paying taxes, and taking jobs away from those who are legal. Now I believe that if an illegal alien came in and said that they wanted to become a citizen, amnesty could be given to them but they would have to go through the same process as everyone else. I believe that is the most fair. Now as for the children? They should blame their parents for not coming here legally. I know this may seem heartless to some, but their parents had an opportunity to do things the right way.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that have yet to be addressed here on this forum is the discussion of what the citizen status of people who come to the United States to study should be. Idealistically we should be hoping that after citizens attend one of our highly ranked universities, they will continue to stay here in the United States subsequent to graduation so that they can contribute to the work force. The current status quo, they receive a student visa. However, just because one studies in the United States does not mean that they automatically have access to a green card. There has been some in Congress who have proposed that we grant green cards to any foreign student who graduates from an American university with a STEM degree. (STEM being Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics)Although I would not necessarily agree with this policy, I believe that when members of Congress meet to discuss the provisions of the next immigration policy, the policy of student status should be revisited and possibly amended to encourage these high achieving individuals to stay within the United States.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with Kirsten’s point about how the passage of this bill can help to dispel the anti-immigrant stereotype of the Republican Party. In relation to our analysis, maybe Obama is responding to the cult of the presidency in this situation. He seems to be inferring about what some of the citizens want to hear by injecting a social issue, like gay marriage, into the bill, although it is not completely necessary in this piece of legislation. He is responding to the promises in his inaugural speech, but it is truly his place to do so when Congress is passing this legislation? This may just be another example of the president being expected to handle situations that are not relevant to his job description, but nonetheless become a reality in order to keep high approval ratings. Obama is interestingly acting differently than he did in the article, “Democrat in Chief?” by trying to make the issue more partisan. He is embracing the view of the Democrats, except now it seems that he is unnecessarily polarizing the issue! Kirsten also brings up a good point about the view of many Americans towards immigration: legal immigrants went through the citizenship process the legal way, so why should the government make accommodations for the illegal aliens when they took the easy way out? Although this may seem cynical, it is a reality that many illegal immigrants come to the United States to have children, and their children, if born on American soil, automatically become United States’ citizens. This then gives the illegal aliens leverage to stay in this country. It becomes a sticky situation when the illegal parents get caught, and the question remains if the parents should be immediately deported, leaving their children abandoned in the United States or given a chance to stay united with their children. In order to avoid these complicated types of situations, the securing of the border is necessary for any effective immigrant control legislation.
ReplyDeleteI think everybody makes very good points. I still feel strongly that this bill is a good idea. I'm glad this is finally a more bipartisan bill. I think there needs to be more bipartisan legislation, with two very polarized parties. Anyway I agree that it is wrong that these people came into America illegally, yet I don't know what their specific circumstances were that caused them to do this. I would have to disagree with Kirsten about the children blaming the parents-the children are US citizens. I don't think we know their circumstances and if the parents are trying to do whatever they can to give the best life for their kids, it would just be wrong to put blame on them. Logistically and economically, I can't imagine that deporting millions of people would be more feasible than granting US citizenship and working to strengthen our border.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that Congress is finally getting closer towards finding a solution for the unimpeded flow of illegal immigrants into the country and their undocumented existence in this country. For such a long time, the Democrats were seen as those who supported these illegal aliens while Republicans were bent on increasing border protection to keep them out of the country and send them back once they were in. Like many other issues, it has not been resolved because of the increasing partisanship in Congress. So it is a relief to see that both sides are finally coming so close to a solution that will help these illegal immigrants, their families, and the country in general. I was disappointed to hear President Obama's little addition to the proposal that focused on the gay marriage issue. This is completely unrelated and is extremely harmful to the successful passage of the bill. Many Congressman will have a problem with this small addition and will jeopardize the long-awaited solution to this enormous problem. This seemed like Obama was just using his power as President to inject his own personal positions into a major piece of legislation created by Congressmen and emphasizes what we discussed in class about the increasing power that presidents assume and the scope of their power and interference in the nation's politics.
ReplyDeleteOkay so after reading most of the comments I think that we can pretty much all agree that no, we shouldn't just let everyone come on over and mooch off of the United State's resources or whatever, but we should come up with a way to help those who are already here become, maybe even conveniently, U.S. citizens. I wouldn't kick them out for my life, but we should also come up with solutions to stop any more immigrants from entering. Like everyone else said, I'm glad this bill is more partisan, but I'm still not sure that the whole gay rights thing is such a bad idea. I mean if you want something done, like Obama does here, wouldn't it look a LOT better if you put in a package deal. For example, if you wanted new swimsuits for spring break but you're broke because you don’t have a job, (like me) wouldn't your parents be more willing to get them for you if you told them that you'd take out the trash for the rest of your life to work them off? This is kindof similar -- the republicans are crazy about immigration and want this bill to be passed, so why not stick some gay rights stuff in there for kicks? I don't think the immigration laws are THAT urgent. Maybe I'm simplifying things too much but you're only president twice right? Goodnight guys.
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